reading about android 10 implementing some privacy features from ios. the most interesting is scoped storage. in the end, apple was right, few need a real filesystem on phones!

@Wolf480pl ...i'd argue that if those few are tech-savvy enough people and another filesystem can be implemented as an app, there's little need for exposing the real one unless one has root access. and if they have root access, for them that storage can hardly be called scoped anymore.

@leip4Ier hm... I don't know how it works on iOS, but if it's still possible to have a common filesystem shared between apps, accessible from a PC, and preferably also accessible when you remove the microSD card and plug it into a PC, then I'm fine with it.

@Wolf480pl each app has its own filesystem (if it chooses to), they all are accessible from pc. you can open a file from one app's filesystem in another app, but only if you choose it explicitly, like when you choose a file to upload to a website. there's no microsd support.

i still see little use for a shared between apps filesystem (except for malicious uses). how do you use it?

@leip4Ier let's say I download a pdf with Firefox. Then I want to read it with MuPDF. Then I want to send it to a friend with K-9 Mail. Then I want to serve it over sftp (another app) so that I can download it to my laptop without messing with USB and MTP.

Another example: I have a text file with notes. I started writing it using one text editor, but one day maybe I'll find a better text editor app and will want to switch to it, or maybe I'll switch to vim in Termux.

@leip4Ier not to mention that sometimes I need to look through the fileststem to see which files or directories take the most space and delete them. There's an app for that.

@Wolf480pl @leip4Ier the fact that software can't write to anywhere other than their own directories has already been very inconvenient for me for file synchronisation software

I'm only using android 7, too, so I imagine it only gets worse from here

@izaya @Wolf480pl oh, i didn't think about this use case, thanks for sharing. yeah, in ios you can either store files in a cloud (will act like a local filesystem, i. e. openable in apps, from the same file selection dialog) with some caching, or locally.

@izaya @Wolf480pl the app i use for storing non-app-specific files can do sync, and it acts as a storage provider. some apps have an option to have an app-specific folder with a storage provider other than the default fs. for example, the apple's office suite can save your files there by default. but e. g. my graphics editing app doesn't allow it.

@leip4Ier @izaya
so it requires extra effort from the app's developer to support 3rd party storage providers?

@Wolf480pl @izaya i don't know the details, i think it either requires a single system api call or depends on a parameter during storage initialization.

@leip4Ier @izaya so it's a policy decision whether an app allows 3rd party storage providers or not?


@Wolf480pl @izaya it's a matter of whether they add the configuration option or not, i guess. i don't know why would they not do it, maybe they think it isn't necessary. i don't see any ideological reasons possible?

@leip4Ier @izaya
system designer> *gives app developers power to disable OS feature $X from affecting their app*
developer> who will need $X anyway
developer> *disables $X in their app*

what could possibly go wrong.

IMO, app developers should never have such control.

@Wolf480pl i know it isn't a good point (more like me venting), but at least apple's app store policies require apps to work even if the user didn't give them access to something. i remember trying the google's (now dead) messenger that upon startup asked me to let it see my contacts (or smth else, i don't remember), and would just say "this app won't run without access [to arbitrary info it doesn't really need]" if i didn't.

so here google was trying to disable a security feature it built

@Wolf480pl but yeah, i agree, this feature could be implemented in system setting instead of an app's settings, and the app wouldn't even know where its files reside, bc it doesn't need to.

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